Welcome to "Survive and Thrive," DW Akademie's dialogue with media managers on innovative and sustainable business models in a challenging global media landscape. We usually talk motivation, lessons learned, funding models, best practices, recipes for success and decisions – both good and bad.

Watch here or read the complete transcript below. 

Janelle Dumalaon: Hello again, and welcome to Survive and Thrive, your media viability podcast. We all know how hard it is to run a media organization. There's the money side, there's the editorial work involved, the personnel dimension and so on. And that's why we have this podcast, to help media managers understand what they can learn from one another in our mutual quest to survive as media organizations, and dare we say it, even to thrive.

Our next guest knows what it's like to deal with the baseline challenges of having a media operation, but also trying something new on top, providing web and digital services within the operation that helps to finance the journalism they do. I'd like to welcome Malek Khadhraoui. He is the executive director of AlKhatt, a nonprofit organization which provides services for journalistic content, and the publication director of Inkyfada, the media outlet run by AlKhatt  - a Tunisian magazine dedicated to investigative and long-form journalism. Hello, Malek. 

Malek Khadhraoui: Hello. 

Dumalaon: We'll talk more about AlKhatt and Inkyfada in a moment, but first we have a short round of introductory questions for you. Your business model in a catch phrase. 

Khadhraoui: I will say services and products, project management and grants.

Did you ever manage a moment when everything seemed lost? 

Yeah, I think during the COVID pandemic. I'm sure I'm not the only one. We had a lot of our services stop in a fraction of time as everything was closing and we were just investing in a physical place where entrepreneurs, journalists and our media outlet could have a place to stay. And it was a very hard moment. We lost 30% of our revenue that year. It was quite a stressful moment for the organization. 

The work stopped because of the COVID pandemic, and for a while, it felt like your world did, too. Yeah, I guess that was a common feeling. Next question: What would you need to thrive in the future? 

We need to sustain the business model, continue finding new revenue streams and new ways to sustain the editorial production, but also (maintain) independence from economic actors and the political side. Tunisia is facing a very challenging moment in terms of civic liberties and the spaces for journalism are shrinking every day. That’s a big challenge, especially for Inkyfada. 

In terms of finding new revenue streams and making sure you're actually able to survive in the difficult environment that Tunisia now provides. All right, so let's get into it. Malek, you've made state-of-the-art storytelling your mission. What does that mean exactly?  

From the beginning, in the DNA of the Inkyfada project, was this idea to prove in a way that we can in our context, provide high-quality journalism fitting the standards – and maybe also bring some innovation on how to tell stories and how to produce stories online and create a good experience of reading very long stories, long in-depth investigative pieces, which are generally not very appealing in terms of visuals. 

The idea from the beginning was to create a new way to tell stories. The name of the media outlet is a contraction between ink and intifada. Intifada in Arabic means uprising. And the idea is that we want to revolutionize very humbly the way we're telling stories in the age of the internet – with a strong connection to the basics of journalism, which is represented by ink, like the printing era. 

The second idea is to have fact-based journalism in a context where opinions are dominant in the media landscape. Experts who are not really experts giving their thoughts on everything. The idea is to say: let's just stick to facts, to data and try to tell the story this way. The objective of this was to give readers and citizens the best keys to understand what's happening. Especially in this specific Tunisian context where the country was living in a democratic transition, going out from decades of dictatorship. The media landscape was really poor in terms of fact-based journalism. So, we saw a need for this kind of journalism. 

Maybe you can talk a bit about how the idea for AlKhat and Inkyfada came into being. As you already mentioned, it arose in a very specific context of democratic transition following the Arab Spring uprisings. Can you tell us a little bit about what gave you the idea to start a media organization at that time? 

Personally, I was involved since 2000 in the Tunisian media landscape from the diaspora. Before 2011 and after 2011 in Tunisia, I was part of a project that was giving space to all the democratic forces fighting the dictator Ben Ali to express themselves, to discuss democracy, the state of society, what kind of action we should do during this. We were also very present in the period of the uprising itself covering it, bringing images and stories from what happened in Tunisia during the period between the 17th of December and the 14th of January. We kept very contextualized materials coming from the ground which helped a lot of international media outlets having reliable fact-checked videos and information coming from the ground. The Tunisian media at the time was completely blacking out all information coming from the ground. So, I was already in this reflection on how to provide Tunisian citizens good quality information about what happened in the country. Also, a big part of this project that I was part of was to give a space for opinions to express themselves, as there was zero space for this kind of expression. 

Then, after 2011, I think everybody in Tunisia had the capacity to express themselves through social media. The censorship was completely shuttered, the Internet was free again in the country and we evaluated again: Should we still as a media outlet continue having our main focus on providing a free speech space for people to express themselves? Or do people maybe need more information and more facts about what's happening, the changes, the impact of all this big change in Tunisian society?  

Also, what happened in the parliament, what happened in the writing of the new constitution? What was happening in the political scene when people were discovering the dissidents who were in the diaspora abroad – a lot of people didn't even know the existence of this political ecosystem that was fighting the dictatorship. 

So, in 2012, 2013, we needed more facts than opinions. And this is why I left with a few people from my old team to fund Inkyfada with this specific objective of providing fact-based journalism.  

So, it was a mix, a of kind of returning the practice of journalistic discourse to society but also developing a base of well-informed news consumers. So, you mentioned a little bit about your business model. I would like to hear a little bit more about that as well. What is the difference between AlKhatt and Inkyfada and where do they overlap? 

AlKhatt is the mother structure that is the publisher of Inkyfada. From the beginning, when we thought about the business model, we already had in mind developing some services, or a transactional side. At the same time, we know that it would not be covering the whole cost of the operations. And from the beginning, we thought of some core funds, we were looking for some donors but we didn't want to have a direct connection between the media outlet itself and the donors. So, AlKhatt plays this in-between role, protecting the editorial independence of Inkyfada. Inkyfada is 100% funded by AlKhatt. The idea is really to separate the editorial independence and the grants. 

AlKhatt also has advocacy purposes, fighting for a better environment for journalism, advocating for the change of the law, creating more skills and also more rights for journalists in Tunisia. And I think the advocacy part of the work is not suitable with the mission of a media outlet. So, the separation comes also from this idea.

And there is also that the portion that's dedicated to providing web and digital services to other organizations – this external service arm. 

Absolutely. This is the other pillar of the business model, which is also related to the specific context of Inkyfada and its creation. From the beginning, the funders of the media outlet, one of our associates was a computer engineer. We have also an artistic director designer who came from the world of advertising, but he was really interested in developing his skills in the world of editorial production. We had these skills on the team from the beginning. The idea was not to create a separation between the technical and the editorial side. Designers and the developers were part of the editorial meetings, part of the newsroom.  

And they also have a say in how to tell the story, how to make it appealing. And I think it's created a culture of how journalists can work with the other people involved in content protection – in opposition to the classical model where you have a plateau with the journalist and people who are doing the technical stuff in another room, on another floor of the organization, not involved in the editorial process. 

We discovered very, very quickly that people were reaching out to say, we love this. We love how you told this story. We love this illustration or this interaction. Can you tell us who your service provider is? And then we said: This is internal, we can help you doing that. 

That’s how we started helping other organizations with better infrastructure, better websites, and to tell their stories. And then some of our donors and partners came to us, said they loved our work and asked if we could help other people, for example, with data journalism skills, investigative journalism or in-depth storytelling? We started developing training curricula for journalists and media organizations similar to us. 

And, step by step, we discovered that we have a bunch of skills, internal skills that have market value. They can be packaged and sold to other media organizations or even media support or development organizations. Already in the first year of doing this, we generated 20% of our need from those services. And from that we started developing a bunch of services that we are now offering. 

In the past two or three years, we’ve started working on packaging some of those services in products. For example, we developed an audience measurement tool – initially, for our own needs. We implemented it in some media outlets and there is very good feedback; it was very useful to understand the audience. We are now selling this tool based on a monthly subscription. 

We also developed an advanced no-code content management system for media outlets who want to develop rich content introducing multimedia elements into their stories. We started selling it to some of our partners and media outlets. The idea is that every time we provide a service, we try to see what kind of component from the service we can package and sell as a product that other people can use. 

Another example is a platform we developed to monitor the parliamentary work in Tunisia. We can now even adapt this to the specific context of other countries. We sell it in Lebanon, for example. We are also discussing with a Senegalese NGO to adapt it to their context. This provides revenue for us but also contributes in a way to our mission in terms of providing tools to NGOs and media outlets.  

Aren't you afraid in some way though of giving away your competitive advantage? The way I understand it, you develop in-house tools to make your own work better, right? When you sell it to others, aren't you afraid of giving the competitors a leg up that perhaps you could have retained for yourself? 

I don't think so because we are a mission-driven organization. We have in mind that we play a role in the ecosystem to help other organizations with their mission. 

For example, the audience measurement tool comes from the idea that the best ones are too expensive for this kind of organization, for small- and mid-size organizations. They have to stick with Google Analytics and very broad, non-specific tools because the best ones are very expensive. The idea is to create a tool that can be affordable, bringing the same kind of value as a very expensive tool. I think that this is part of the mission of Inkyfada and AlKhatt, to be a positive actor in the ecosystem, providing affordable tool assistance to similar organizations in the region. 

What are the challenges in running essentially different kinds of operations together? I can imagine that that, for example, presents challenges with recruitment. You need journalists, but you also need highly skilled design, creative and web engineering teams, for example. 

Yeah, I think creating a synergy between these different worlds is one of the biggest challenges of such a business model. In a way, the editorial world is completely different from the engineering world, which is completely different from design. Even the timeline of how they produce is completely different. We have at least three different mindsets that need to come together to produce one piece of content.  

We were lucky from the beginning, as one of the co-founders already had skills – it wasn’t a journalist trying to hire an engineer, but an engineer working in a media outlet hiring other engineers. We already had people who believed in this mission. The team we build like this is based on our mission: It needs technology but the technology has to serve this purpose. 

And it was a long process to achieve this balance between different cultures. Also, the newsroom’s first mission isn’t to create revenue. The purpose of the newsroom is to continue producing content. So, it has also to make sense for the department who is generating the revenue to contribute to a higher purpose in a way because this is a non-profit organization. There would never be a profit mindset in a lab or editorial department. So, this is a very important cultural aspect.  

Then, the media ecosystem is not very appealing for engineers. It’s not their first choice to go work in a media outlet. They want to be in tech, because it helps them increase their skills, learn new things. And the fact that we also produce new technology is an argument to bring in new talent. We decided to invest more in very young but talented engineers. We sometimes even recruit them before they finish their degree, sometimes even funding the last year of studies to help them finish. What we discovered is that when we bring in someone with seniority from the industry, things don't really work the same as when you bring in a young talent and invest in them and have them grow their expertise within the structure itself. 

For designers, I think the opportunity and the visibility of Inkyfada generates some interest among young illustrators and photographers to showcase their talent. And we have a lot of stories of people starting out by doing illustrations for us and going on to have big customers from other media outlet in Tunisia or abroad.  

So, we invest a lot in skills. I remember from the beginning, I had, like, at least one day a week looking for new talent, new journalists, new developers, new designers, people who can upscale our production and bring new ideas, a new way of doing it. 

So, I guess in order to create the sort of team that fosters innovation, you really do need to invest in skills and also recruit people with a certain sort of mental and creative flexibility and where they're not yet so set in their ways as to how things have to be produced now. Is there a certain example of a story that you did where all of these things have come together, where you can say this is the best showcase of our journalistic, technical and creative talent? 

Yeah, I have one in mind and it’s not too old. It's based on a study on poverty in Tunisia. We got access to raw data from a national study on poverty funded by the World Bank with the Tunisian Statistics Institute. It was a perfect collaboration between those three departments: The editorial part was to tell the story, to make sense of this very large amount of data and explain why, where and how poverty spreads through the country.  

With the help of the data science team, for example, we came up with some correlation between public services and poverty – how access to public services can impact the poverty rate in a specific region. And we discovered by putting on the map all those data that there is a big disparity between the coastal areas in Tunisia and the interior areas, the rural areas. We visualized this very clearly: There is more investment in public services in the coastal area and some big cities compared to more rural interior regions. This showed how the policies are more focused on certain areas in the country – which was one of the main causes of the uprising in 2011, this disparity between development among the regions. 

This story was really one of the examples where the designers thought about telling these stories visually, the data science team helped the newsroom understand the data itself and what kind of findings they can highlight in the story, and the editorial team told it in an easily understandable way, also serving the purpose of to say that public services are a human right, they’re at the base of any equitable society. 

The kind of stories that you tend to produce, they're very in-depth, they're very informative and investigative. But that also means they're resource-intensive, they're time-intensive, right? Like, you're not merely telling a story, but you want to tell it in the most visually appealing way possible. And as such, that requires even more effort. So, my next question is about prioritization: How do you make sure that you get those stories out, but also that you uphold the other side of the business, which is getting other organizations to also be able to tell stories in this way using tools you developed? 

I think for the editorial team, we created some internal processes based on how we produce. The fact that there are others involved in the production process makes the journalists understand that there is a certain amount of time they have to tell the story, and also the developers need time.  

At the beginning, for example, the editorial team spent two months working on a piece. And afterward, they were waiting for the piece to be produced and wondering why it took the developer and the designers so long. This comprehension of the different timelines was a challenge. So, we created an internal process where we have a representative from each department making the connection around a bigger story.  

Some smaller stories can also be very developed but with our content management system, we journalists have a very wide range of capacity of customization, an introduction of visuals and multimedia content. So, not every story needs the intervention of a developer or a designer. Some stories can be produced in the newsroom without any help. 

So, we try to manage between the workload on the service providers, the lab, the design team and the intervention in the internal production with Inkyfada, which sometimes can create some friction. Sometimes our external customers are very needy in terms of assistance, in terms of deadlines. And as it's a paid service, we need to prioritize this kind of delivery – sometimes even over delivery for our own newsroom.  

So, this process helps us manage in a more efficient way how those skills are used and everybody is aware about the workload, and other colleagues’ timelines. Having contact people in each department makes the work smoother. And I think that 10 years after the launch of the project, we managed to at least put in place something that is functioning. 

You've seen what it's like to work with other media organizations because you provide these services for them. You must have a good idea about what other outlets apart from yourself need to be innovative. What have you learned about the needs of media in general to stay viable, to be innovative based on the work that you've done externally? 

The media we work with are generally very skilled in terms of editorial production. But sometimes they don't have as much experience in some specific thing like producing long-form reporting or investigative pieces. That’s when it’s easy for us to intervene.  

But one of the major observations that we had over the years is that media outlets are very poorly skilled in terms of technical expertise. Most of the time they don't have at least one tech person within the newsroom. They contract external service providers which sometimes creates this cultural problem between editorial and external services. It can be very costly for them, and they are very limited in terms of possibilities to change the infrastructure, to update, to be able to follow some trend or some new technology available for journalists. 

There’s a lack of investment in technical teams in the organizations. Also, most of them are run by editors, by journalists. They, for example, left the mainstream media to create a new outlet but they don't have a lot of management skills. They weren’t even aware of the entrepreneurial side of launching a new media outlet. And I think that bringing some expertise to help them at least find a business model that can serve a specific editorial offer is what was one of the things that helps a lot of organization. And it was one of the things that they needed at least to solve. 

And the other difficulty that we also see is understanding the audience. Who are the people who are reading the product? How do they interact with it? What do they think about it? What kind of content do they need? We help a lot of organizations doing basic stuff like forms to ask the audience, physical gatherings, like a focus group from the audience to understand how they think about the content and what kind of content they needed. 

Also, from this observation we came up with our audience measurement tool that can give them a better way to understand and to make decisions based on how their audience is consuming the content. 

And then sometimes, we can benefit from ideas that other organizations have but maybe lack the capacity to bring them to life. One partnership that we did with Women in News, a Canadian organization founded by WAN-IFRA is an example. They wanted to advocate on sexual harassment in the newsroom and to promote more inclusive reporting in general. 

And during this reflection, we came up with the idea to create a machine learning based product that plays the role of the gender editor. It takes the copy, assesses it and tells you how balanced it is between men and women characters. It checks for stereotypes or formulations that can be misleading or interpreted as a stereotype. And we worked together for a year learning from them about what is a stereotype and some challenges in terms of processing this data and accessing the partner data and we came up with a tool called Gender Tracker, which is now available and a stand-alone product that any media outlet can use before publishing to assess their copy, but also after publishing to compile a report about how balanced their content was. 

It can create a good discussion within the newsroom: Can we have more women experts on the subject? Why are there so many men telling their stories and not enough women? This was a great idea for us from the beginning. And our technical team worked on developing this machine-learning-based model to understand different contexts. The product can work in English, in French, in Arabic and we are very happy to be able to also implement it into our audience measurement tool. So, the media which are using the tool can also have reports on how balanced their content is and act on that. 

When you talk about “In Depth,” your audience measurement tool, I imagine that you've also gained a lot of insight with regard to what audiences who generally consume journalism want to see and hear. What do you think is the most important thing you've learned from employing the tool? 

Yeah, it's very interesting what we can learn. We have one year of data from different contexts, from different media outlets, different sizes also. And I think the most interesting fact is that short stories are not necessarily the ones that perform better. We have a lot of examples of very long stories, investigative features that can drive a lot of audience compared to, like, news productions or very short production. That’s counterintuitive when we, at the same time, see that people don't have the time to read, they don’t have the time to dive deep into stories. 

But the ones that work well are the ones that introduce multimedia content, interactive infographics, videos, audios, but also the ones who give a summary of what to expect at the beginning, like bullet points at the beginning of a long story, saying we're going to talk about this and this and this. It’s increased the depth of reading, how deep people go. We have a very interesting metric, the “depth rate”. It shows you how many of them finished the story and where people are leaving the story. This can give you the possibility to assess why people are leaving. Sometimes a fix can be changing the position of the photo, introducing subtitles to a video, or giving a description on how to use an infographic.  

That's very interesting. And I think it also ties very nicely into our closing segment, which of course is to ask you what are three best practices you would give to other media managers like you? 

The first one – and I talked a lot about it – is the skills. Find the right skills for your organization and invest in them. I think this is the pillar of any business model that you want to develop. You have to find the best journalists, the best designers, the best developers and for them to thrive within the organization, it’s important to come up with this common culture. 

I would say this is my second tip: create an internal culture that will find a place for anybody in the structure and how they can contribute to the greater goal. It's important for people to know where they are contributing. As I said, for example, the newsroom is not the one who’s expected to generate the most revenue. It's important for them to know that they are contributing to the mission, the brand, visibility and the stories that they are producing. They bring us more customers looking for the same kind of production. 

The third one is diversification. If we look at big players on the market – The New York Times, the Washington Post – there are media organizations which are already living very well from advertising, for example, or now from subscriptions. But they keep innovating. They keep creating new ways to generate revenue, selling products, services, PR services, event organizations, any revenue stream. Any dollars that you can generate from your own activity is a dollar for the independence of the media outlet. 

So, don't hesitate to diversify, but also when you find a spot where you can have an added value, keep digging. Don't stay on the surface of things. For us, when we find that our technological services, maybe our expertise in a field is very needed. We keep developing services and products related to this because it's important. When you find something that is valuable for others, keep improving it, keep making it better. 

Thank you so much to our guest today, Malek Khadhraoui. He's the Executive Director of AlKhatt and publication director of Inkyfada, in Tunisia. 

Thank you very much.

This transcript of "Survive and Thrive: The Media Viability Podcast" has been lightly edited for clarity.

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This podcast is produced by DW Akademie and is supported by the Federal Ministry for Economic Cooperation and Development (BMZ).

AlKhatt is a DW Akademie partner for projects in Tunisia at the intersection of tech and journalism. The Smart Media Accelerator, is a hub for quality journalism that brings together entrepreneurs, media and tech professionals in a startup incubator (MEDIA LOVES TECH) and accelerator program (MEDIA PARCOURS).